Mastery System Discussion

[Tiggy]

The mastery system is a way of adding some balance to the game. We don't want people learning high level skills such as Ragnarok 2 weeks after they awaken. And, well a leveling system is over used and does not allow for much freedom. The mastery system works in a way that allows you to use these high level spells but punishes you for doing so. So if you have rank 1 in fire and you decide to use Ragnarok you will deplete all of your mana, if you even have enough to do so, and may even die. Now if you were rank 6 and used it, it would be the equivalent of using agi at rank 1.

High rank=better spells. But that's not all. Your rank also coincides with the amount of damage you do as well as your accuracy of your spells. So you get more out of using skills that are in your rank than using higher level skills. At certain ranks you will learn your respective Boost and Amp skill to show that you are improving your skills and becoming a master in your craft. Raising your rank in an area also allows you to learn powerful skills that are not on the regular skill list.


The only thing I can compare it to is the perk system in Skyrim and Fallout. You pick tree you want to go down and you get the perks.

This is just a rough draft so you all can get a feel for it. So give your 2 cents on how you feel about it, what you want to see, praise me, etc. Discuss away.

Fighter

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Rage Mode - Raises Attack, and Accuracy and lowers Defense for two post cycles for the user. After two cycles user burns out and cannot perform an action for two cycles.

Mage

Rogue

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Stealth - Hides the user from detection by all threats for 3 post cycles, any offensive action performed by the target removes the cloak. Offensive actions performed out of stealth gain a 15% damage boost. Cooldown of 3 cycles. [spoie

Tank

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Immovable Wall - User acts as a wall for a party member, until the skill is either turned off or used on someone else. When that party member takes damage you jump in front of them and redirect 15% of the damage to yourself.
Taunt - The target of this skill must attack the user. Single Target. Duration 1 cycle. Cooldown 1 cycle.

Slash

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Slash Boost - Strengthens Slash attacks by 25%
Slash Amp - Strengthens Slash attacks by 50%
Vorpal Blade - Deals severe Pierce damage to all foes
Masakados - Deals Massive fire damage to all foes

Strike

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Strike Boost - Strengthens Strike attacks by 25%
Strike Amp - Strengthens Strike attacks by 50%
Akasha Arts - Deals severe Pierce damage to all foes
Golden Strike - Deals Massive Strike damage to all foes

Pierce

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Pierce Boost - Strengthens Pierce attacks by 25%
Pierce Amp - Strengthens Pierce attacks by 50%
Pralaya - Deals severe Pierce damage to all foes
Pasupata - Deals Massive Pierce damage to all foes

Fire

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Fire Boost - Strengthens Fire attacks by 25%
Fire Amp - strengthens Fire attacks by 50%
Pyriphlegethon-Deals severe fire damage to all foes
Entei- Deals Massive fire damage to all foes

Ice

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Ice Boost - Strengthens Ice attacks by 25%
Ice Amp - strengthens Ice attacks by 50%
Glacial Cataclysm- Deals severe Ice damage to all foes
Absolute Zero- Deals massive Ice damage to all foes

Electricity

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Elec Boost - Strengthens Electricity attacks by 25%
Elec Amp - strengthens Elec attacks by 50%
Kiten-Deals severe elec damage to all foes
Gorogoro Narukami-Deals massive elec damage to all foes

Wind

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Wind Boost - Strengthens Wind attacks by 25%
Wind Amp - Greatly strengthens Wind attacks by 50%
Kamikaze-Deals severe wind damage to all foes
Vayaviya-Deals massive wind damage to all foes

Earth

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Earth Boost - Strengthens Earth attacks by 25%
Earth Amp - Strengthens Earth attacks by 50%
Gaia’s Rage -Deals Severe Earth damage to all foes
Titanomachia-Deals massive earth damage to all foes

Water

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Water Boost - Strengthens Water attacks by 25%
Water Amp - Strengthens Water attacks by 50%
Tsunami-Deals Severe water damage to all foes
Deluge-massive water damage to all foes

Light

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Light Boost - Strengthens Light attacks by 25%
Light Amp - Strengthens Light attacks by 50%
Samsara- Deals Severe Light damage to all foes
Alpha Blaster-Deals massive Light damage to all foes.

Dark

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Dark Boost - Strengthens Dark attacks by 25%
Dark Amp - Strengthens Dark attacks by 50%
Die for Me!- Deals severe Dark damage to all foes
Omega Cluster-Deals massive Dark damage to all foes

Almighty

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Morning Star- Deals massive Almighty damage to all foes
Black Viper- Deals massive Almighty damage to all foes.

Healing

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Divine Grace - Increases Healing skills by 25%
Megami Tensei- Increases Healing skills by 50%

Ailment

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Ailment Amp - Increases ailment accuracy by 10%
Impure reach - Increases ailment accuracy by 15%
Pandora’s Box- 50% chance to inflict Panic, Poison, Rage, Exhaustion, Enervation, or Charm on all foes.

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On a different, but similar note. You may have noticed that physical skills are not included, it's not an accident, and no it's not because I'm lazy. I was just having a hard time thinking about how they would work. Would our characters be the ones doing the move or are we gonna go the game/p4 anime route where the persona are a kind of familiar?

How I see it is that the characters are the ones doing all of the fighting. They are the one casting agi, and dia as well as the ones using the physical moves such as cleave and single shot. The persona would just be there as the mediums giving the characters the power to cast these spells and what not, as well as be a sort of armor allowing them to take blows most people would die from. This gives some logical reason as to why the characters would be able to take literally being on fire and electrocuted. Again as with the mastery system give your two cents and discuss away.

[Isolde Spencer]

To me, I think it is a great idea for anyone that wants to master their skills and by doing so, the rewards are great which the masters of their respective element can use high level spells without any problem once they reach a higher rank. I also think the punishment for using a high level spell when your rank is lower is probably fair. It's like using too much high tier spells can have really dire consequences to the Persona User involved.

With that being said, the rough draft of the mastery system looks pretty good. Mastering skills is really better than using an overused leveling system where it takes way too long to learn a skill. I feel like if we're going to use the mastery system, we should have something to keep track of our rank.

I am a bit concerned that the mastery system might have some loophole to be abused, but that probably shouldn't be a problem if retroactive posts are not accepted to raise their rank.

Well that's pretty much it for my two cents. Hopefully we'll see how this plays out.

[Hiromi Sakata]

Does the mastery system work with what we currently have? So far people have to choose their skills. Are we doing away with that?

Do people start with 2 'mastery points' and earn more? So sort-of-leveling? Or is there a set number of points and they can decide where to distribute them?

Just asking, so I can get a better understanding.

[Tiggy]

@toshi

Well my plan is to have it as a substitute to standard leveling up. Because there would only be like 6 ranks it would take longer to gain. As to how you would gain points for it i am not sure as of now.

You still get to choose your skills and what not this is just to give amp passives and the uber skills. And maybe if i come up with something we can tie the skills with mastery. I do not know as of now though.

[Hiromi Sakata]

Could we get persona archetypes. Like in the games there's stats. And while I hate numbered stats (My power level is higher than yours!), i wouldn't mind a system where its like...you can say if your persona relies more on strength over magic. Or agility over tank stats. Things like that.

[Tiggy]

That is definitely something I was thinking about. But, I feel like that would be too limiting I guess. Unless we have it so liek if you have a specific role, say like mage, you would be banned from getting any mastery in the physical tree (slash, strike, pierce) but you could get full mastery in 2-3 different elements/ailment/healing. So it would be more of a trade off. BUt if you didn't choose a specific role you would be allowed to use both magical and physical trees but could only master say 1 or 2 things.

If we did it like that I'd be cool with doing it, but I would need to see where everyone else stands on the subject first.

[Jonathon McDowell]

In my head the way it worked is that Personas could be summoned to do more powerful versions. A normal persona user can cast Agi for example by themself, or they can summon their persona to fire off a fire ball. Or if a character got into melee combat with something their size, they'd be fine, but if something big came along, they could summon their persona to fight it. As for the mastery system, it makes sense to me and I think it'll work fine. But yeah...personas, their a thing that can be used as like a pokemon...only bigger and demony-er.

[Shion Amanomiya]

I'm good with the mastery system so far, but have some concerns:

- Since these skills exist outside the 8 final skills that the purse users have, then I suppose it could belong to the auxiliary benefits as the character grows in strength, and we can even add upgrading resists to nulls to absorbs (although weakness will always remain weaknesses).

- The store already going to be dependent on the number of posts made (feel free to correct me here), and if we do it on the same for ranking up, then it's not going to be fair to some people because of the differing quality of posts. It's kind of punishing people who put more thought and effort into their posts. I'm not saying we should get stricter with post quality, though, just to look for something else to use as a basis.

- Considering that a Persona is a product of the mind/soul (It's not really delineated, and for purposes of convenience I'll say mind moving forward), the way I saw it was that the Persona executes the skills, and the User on their own can only do the basic physical attack with their weapon or whatnot. It's actually the User's mind getting stronger when they 'level' up and gain new persona abilities, not the User learning to jump 9 feet to stick their spear into a flying Shadow. It would also be a reason as to why a Persona gets to be more stable as the character mentally and emotionally develops positively (and why ailments like can prevent someone from using their Persona effectively). Would also help problems that would arise when dealing with gigantic Shadows.

[Tetsuya Horokeu]

The mastery system will for sure not be based off of posts, because that's just unfair to those who get caught up in the real world and it just doesn't seem efficient.

I knew I forgot to put something in the post. I was definitely thinking about adding resists and nulls to the mastery system just forgot to put that in the post. But I feel like that would be a lot better than just gaining them as regular skills. You would probably gain the resist with the respectable boost and the null with the amp.

As for personas, I see what you guys mean about the whole one construct. I may be the only person in the world who wants the actual person to be fighting. So to fill my own selfish needs I might make up some kind of "Persona Type" thing. Like "Summoned" would be your pokemon esque persona and like "Empower" be the way I was describing it where the persona is teh one doing all of the moves. "Support" would be your Fuka and Rise. And maybe an "Armor" type where it would be like a Mech type thing. I don't know give your opinions on it.

[Jonathon McDowell]

I like it, the only thing is that it could be argued that some persona could possibly fall into two categories.

[Gin Seimei]

Then when should this mastery come in place?
For missions?
Events?

Since it's not directly contributed via actual posts means something else has to bare this front so I would think missions would be appropriate

That and I do agree that masteries should be separate from regular skills!

[Tetsuya Horokeu]

Ok so what I've gathered from everyone's comments and questions, I have a better understanding of what I should do with the Mastery System. Right now I'm just gonna give you all an idea of what I'm going to eventually implement to the site. 

Ok well heres the breakdown of what will be Implemented.

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Archetype: Seeing as no one really said anything against it, and I like the idea of it, we will definitely have Archetypes. Now this doesn't mean you will be forced to play as an archetype, or that people with archetypes will be better. It's just a way to give those who choose to play as a specific archetype a little boost. The downside to this is that each archetype will be closed off from a certain tree, while unspecified, or Jack Of Trades, will be allowed into all trees. To balance this further specialized will be allowed to master more trees, as well as have their own archetype tree.

Archetypes I can think of as of now are along the lines of:

• Fighter
• Mage
• Support/Bard
• Assassin/Rogue
• Tank
• Hexer (status ailment user)
• Marksmen

Mastery system: For the sake of ease I'll throw the whole persona types and archetypes in the Mastery System as well. Since they would change the way each player plays and how they would grow. I might throw a tree for the archetypes and persona types as well. So if you decide to have your persona be a "Summoned" type Tank you would have a Tank tree as well as a Summoned tree. I'm iffy on the persona type tree but the archetypes I'm about 90% sure I will make.

Resists and Nulls will be added to the tree also, allowing you to gain some defensive stats against the element you know best. This helps to free up a resist/null slot. You may not start off with it, but hey you get something for your effort. 

As to how you gain points and such for mastery, I am still figuring that out. I'm thinking of doing it based on missions(?) or something. If anyone has any ideas as to how to do it please tell me. For now I'll just leave it at that.

As for how the trees work, think of it as Skyrim, Fallout, Mass Effect, or Dragon Age. You get certain amount of points and you put it in the tree you want to. When a segment is fully finished, Rank 1, you get that ranks perks, which would be a skill, passive, resist, null, etc.

And as of now, the skills in the skill list are separate from the Mastery System. You still draft your skills at the beginning, this is just a way to give you a boost to said skills, or pick up a new skill if you want.

Persona Types: This is the product of my selfish and stubborn personality. Everyone will be allowed to define their persona type in their character app now. This will allow each person some customization in the way the fight and use their persona. It may seem kind of unfair to some people because one person would be literally fighting against gods and demons, but I ensure you if two people are the exact same strength and one has a Summoned persona while the other is Empowered they would be equal. This is so there is no bias towards one type. This is literally just to give everyone a choice in how they use their persona.

Here are the Persona Types I have so far:

• Summoned: You summon your persona to do spells and abilities just like in the games. Basically Pokemon persona....Personamon
• Empowered: This is where the character takes on the strength of their persona and fight on their own. They are the ones using each skill and ability. The persona flashes behind them after each skill is used. You can think of this as your character being possessed by the persona.
• Support/Navigator: These are your, well, support persona. They don't have many, if any combat skills, but they make up for that with heals, buffs, debuffs, status ailments, etc. These are your Fuuka's and Rise's of the group. The persona Physically manifests and surrounds the user, as a sort of armor, which leads toooooo....
• Armor: The only way to describe them would be mech users, or biodigvolved persona users. They summon their persona and reside inside of it controlling it from the "cockpit" So yeah basically this is for the Gundam fanboys *cough* Toshi *cough*

Well that's all for this. If you have any more questions comments or concerns go ahead and comment.

[Matheroc]

Good morning, afternoon, evening and night, whoever may be reading this. I am Matheroc. As far as my time is concerned, it is late night. I hope that there is no need for me to introduce myself here. Hopefully I will do so at later date in more suitable way.


1. Going from the beginning: Head Admin Tiggy, you said something about six ranks. I need to express belief that you can deliver at least a vision of how it would look, rank by rank, starting with someone with no rank. Is he incapable of using, say, Agi or Maragi? Or is he a mere acolyte on the Path of Inferno, burning something with grace of kid?

(Too Long; Didn't Read: Can you describe those ranks and what they mean for Purse Owner and Anti Shadow Successful Toaster? )

2. Also, I hope that Element Boost will override Element Amp, rather than amplify it. Then again, that would merely serve to both simplify calculations and to potentially prevent some unforeseen problems with potential boosters in future. [150% in event of Boost overriding Amp; 187,5% in event of Boost boosting and Amp amplifing.]

(Too Long; Didn't Read: Is EB better version of EA, and therefore it will take place of EA? Or are they two separate skills meant to work together?)

(Note: The same thing applies to Ailment Amp and Impure Reach.)

3. On the same note, it pains me to observe that skills of category "massive damage" appear only in version "multi-target". As much as I subscribe to the theory of Diplomancy by Superior Firepower, I was led to believe that sometimes you just want to kill one person, not entire city.
Of course, I cannot avoid the topic of "severe all-targets damagers" being under pursuit of Mastery System. Is this intentional?

(Too Long; Didn't Read: I think we should make "massive singer-target damagers" to every element. And that "severe all-targets damagers" should go into Skill Database.)

4. As much as I can understand your explanation about why you decided against making ranks for Physical Skills, I need to raise a counterpoint, namely the fact that at this moment someone who would decide to specialise in them is in disadvantage against someone who decided to get the last rank of their chosen element. Precisely because Physical-User's best damage dealer deals severe damage, whereupon Magical-User's best damage dealer deals massive damage, which gets higher thanks to Element Amp/Element Boost. [Either 150% or 187,5% - refer to point "2".]

(Too Long; Didn't Read: Someone who wanted to punch Shadows is weaker than someone who wanted to blast them. We need to bring them somewhat closer. Unless we want D&D "Linear Warrior, Quadratic Wizards" scenario, that is.)

Also, I would like to note that at this moment, Divine Grace is within Skill Database and is doubling power of restorative magic. Unless it is intended to be in two places at the same time.


That's about first post.

Now then:

> I would like to know about how exactly that system would work in department of gaining ranks and distribution of ranks. Yes, I saw that you don't know that as for, probably, now.

>

Jan 29, 2016 20:12:54 GMT -5 Tetsuya Horokeu said:

I knew I forgot to put something in the post. I was definitely thinking about adding resists and nulls to the mastery system just forgot to put that in the post. But I feel like that would be a lot better than just gaining them as regular skills. You would probably gain the resist with the respectable boost and the null with the amp.

I would like to point out that there is still level "Absorb"/"Reflect". Depending on where you may be willing to place them, for me they are equally above "Immune". Unless they are strictly Shadow-territory.

>

Jan 29, 2016 9:16:53 GMT -5 Shion Amanomiya said:

- Considering that a Persona is a product of the mind/soul (It's not really delineated, and for purposes of convenience I'll say mind moving forward), the way I saw it was that the Persona executes the skills, and the User on their own can only do the basic physical attack with their weapon or whatnot. It's actually the User's mind getting stronger when they 'level' up and gain new persona abilities, not the User learning to jump 9 feet to stick their spear into a flying Shadow. It would also be a reason as to why a Persona gets to be more stable as the character mentally and emotionally develops positively (and why ailments like can prevent someone from using their Persona effectively). Would also help problems that would arise when dealing with gigantic Shadows.

Jan 29, 2016 20:12:54 GMT -5 Tetsuya Horokeu said:

As for personas, I see what you guys mean about the whole one construct. I may be the only person in the world who wants the actual person to be fighting. So to fill my own selfish needs I might make up some kind of "Persona Type" thing. Like "Summoned" would be your pokemon esque persona and like "Empower" be the way I was describing it where the persona is teh one doing all of the moves. "Support" would be your Fuka and Rise. And maybe an "Armor" type where it would be like a Mech type thing. I don't know give your opinions on it.

Well, armor and weapon technically allow person to fight. Still, having Persona wouldn't hinder anything. Also, I would like to receive a presentation about how those "types" would work, for example, when casting Agi, using Analysis or having Regenerate.

Also, I think that "Armor" type (however it would work) could solve a problem of not jumping 3 metres up to stab something. ;P

As you can observe, I am very bad thinker.

My personal question: Would it be possible for Purse Owner and Anti Shadow Supreme Terminator to be able to cast spells/skills weaker then what he can? [For example, Persona-User A can cast Maragidyne. Can he choose to cast Maragi, for one reason or another?]

As final note:

Jan 29, 2016 9:16:53 GMT -5 Shion Amanomiya said:

Would also help problems that would arise when dealing with gigantic Shadows.

Jan 29, 2016 20:12:54 GMT -5 Tetsuya Horokeu said:

And maybe an "Armor" type where it would be like a Mech type thing.

Ah, Power Rangers.

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Edit (New development) (I need to check threads shortly before I will post.) :


ARCHETYPES:

As much as I like to witness how gaming industry grows, for sake of people who never played in MMORPGs, I would like to ask about explanation and expansion of those Archetypes.

And, as far as I can see, what you meant is:
Archetypes get to master more trees and get their own tree, whereupon Jack of All Trades gets less mastered trees and no tree to call their own.
So, hard limit on how many trees one person can get depending on Archetype? (Less than maximum amount of available trees, of course)

MASTERY SYSTEM:

I kinda cannot see how exactly "Persona Type" trees would work, to be honest. ;^_^

Points - I can see them as reward from events, some very important missions and as reward for crossing some post threshold.
And, point from Archetypes about hard limit.

PERSONA TYPES:

Jan 30, 2016 21:04:12 GMT -5 Tetsuya Horokeu said:

This is the product of my selfish and stubborn personality. Everyone will be allowed to define their persona type in their character app now. This will allow each person some customization in the way the fight and use their persona. It may seem kind of unfair to some people because one person would be literally fighting against gods and demons, but I ensure you if two people are the exact same strength and one has a Summoned persona while the other is Empowered they would be equal. This is so there is no bias towards one type. This is literally just to give everyone a choice in how they use their persona.

We shall see results of that proclamation.

As for Persona Pokemon, I would call it "Persomon". ;P

Also, checked out Gundam. Are we talking about those giant mechs? How would they even be helpful in event of Shadow infestation in Normal World? o.o

Welp, I think that's all. I think. ;^_^

[Tetsuya Horokeu]

@math

1. Everyone starts at rank 1 for everything. And like I said before skills from the list are, as of now not going to be tied to MS. 
2. Boost is not better than Amp because 25% < 50%. As of now I do not know if they will stack. I'm leaning closer to not stacking.
3. The Severe and Massive skills will stay as they are. Theses skills are strong and multi target because they are the strongest.
4. The reason I didn't make skills for the physical ones is because I wanted to figure out how skills were being used. I was wondering If i should make different skills for each weapon type, ie Pierce is for Guns, Bows, and Spears. At no point was I ever thinking of not giving Physical skills trees, boosts, amps, severe, or massive skills.
5. Divine grace will be taken out of skill list.
6. MS will only give resist and null. People can still choose absorb or reflect when making their persona.
7. When I said personally fight I meant them being the ones using something like Brave Blade. They would use their sword to cut the shadow or whatever instead of the persona being summoned and doing the action.
8. As long as there is room in your 8 slots for skills you could have maragi and maragidyne at the same time. Never said you weren't allowed to cast weaker spells.


And everything from my last post is subject to change. Nothing has been fully worked out yet. It was just me informing everyone of what to look forward to in the future. Nothing is written in stone, nothing is fully thought out. As I said that was just to give an idea of what will eventually be implemented.
 

[Matheroc]

@tiggy

1. Alright, thanks for answering. =b

2. ... My mistake. ;^_^

3. Besides logic (Shouldn't they be the strongest because they are so strong (buttery butter) and they hit every target?), I am still not seeing an argument for not having those "Massive Single-Target" Skills.

4. Alright, thanks for answering. =b

5. Mhmmm.

6. Eeee? Tiggy? Here is Character Template. As far as I can see, there is no option for Absorb or Reflect...

7. All right, cannot say I cannot see appeal.

8. I meant Persona-User limiting power of skills during casting them, not having two different skills.


Can someone else provide another point of view, too? owo